Want to understand this position
I encountered this position. I have the feeling that when I really understand it, it would entail with a whole host of positional knowledge for me. So I'm going to try to find out what I can learn from it.
[ rn3rk1/pp2qpp1/2p2n2/3p1b1p/1b1P4/2N1PPP1/PP2N1BP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 2 11 ]
In a non tactical position there can always be some debate about the best move, since there can be more than one good (enough) move. But here both GM Smyslov and GM Stockfish seem to agree on [ 11. e4 ] Select the area between the brackets to see their suggestion.
Although it is intuitively the first move that comes to mind, there are a few arguments against it.
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| White to move |
In a non tactical position there can always be some debate about the best move, since there can be more than one good (enough) move. But here both GM Smyslov and GM Stockfish seem to agree on [ 11. e4 ] Select the area between the brackets to see their suggestion.
Although it is intuitively the first move that comes to mind, there are a few arguments against it.
- It seems to lose a pawn
- It leaves the d4 pawn vulnerable
- There doesn't seem too much difference in development or activity between both sides
- It gives black a nice outpost on d5
- If I win back h5, I seem to have exchanged a center pawn for a rook pawn
What was the game from which this position was taken?
ReplyDeleteMy preliminary thoughts ("gut" reaction), without any engine analysis:
Structurally, the d4-Pawn (even if isolated) controls important center squares and insures White more center control (d4 vs. c6). At this stage of the game, it is a dynamic strength, not a static weakness. Black will have tempi difficulties trying to block its advance by controlling d5, and is not ready to pile up on it (as an endgame weakness). White also has the long-range opportunity for a minority attack on the queenside. Black has (somewhat) weakened b7 with Bf5, which is a “loose” piece. Black will lose time repositioning Bb4 after White plays a3, allowing White to advance his minority attack with tempo.
Black MAY have a problem coordinating the development of the queenside pieces – moving Nbd7 removes a retreat square for Nf6, if needed after a break in the center (and the center is fluid). The Rf1 “attacks” both Bf5 and Nf6 (LoA); f5 and f6 are PoPs. Perhaps there is the possibility of gaining the two Bishops, with an open center position, at the relatively trivial cost of a Pawn.
Tactics come into play after 1. e4 dxe4 2. fxe4. Now Black cannot recapture with 2. … Nf6, because it leaves Bf5 hanging (LPDO). (It’s such a “small” threat that it is easy to overlook.) Black is “forced” to recapture with 2. … Bxe4; retreating to g6 allows White to establish a mobile Pawn center duo with the initiative and a lead in development. White garners the two Bishops, an open center (with strong points d4-c5-e5) and the initiative with 3. Nxe4. Bc1 has easy development and Black still has to unravel his queenside pieces for counterplay (where?).
Very good points!
DeleteKhismatullin, Denis vs Fedorov, Evgueny
ReplyDelete29th Memorial Nezhmetdinov
01-06-2007
I added the FEN: rn3rk1/pp2qpp1/2p2n2/3p1b1p/1b1P4/2N1PPP1/PP2N1BP/R1BQ1RK1 w - - 2 11
ReplyDeleteJust because its a "non tactical" position ( realy? ) dont mean that there are no calculations to do.
ReplyDeleteOften it helps to play several lines against the engine to get a better understanding.
I know from the pawnstructure (Carlsbad-Formation) that there are 2 main plans for white: minority attack and e4.
To go for a Minority attack dont look good.
The position shows that smyslov was already planing e4 ( f3 )
Now if you want to play this opening/pawnstructure you need to know the plan e4 and ideas behind it. And you need to have seen many gm-games in that line. Im not a 1.d4 player so i cant be to much of a help
Static view: The position is late opening so general goal : put the pieces out at good places.
e3 is weak, Bc1 is bad, where to put it?, Bg2 is not that good either
Now playing with grandmaster Fritz 13 :
11. e4 dxe4 12. fxe4 Bxe4 13. Bg5 Bg6 *
Bc1-g5 has now perfect position/mobility , did gain 6 potential moves
Rf1 did gain 4 potential moves
10 moves more mobility = 1 pawn ( rule of thumb )
Now Black is behind in development, Bb4 is doing.. not that much
Ra8 is out of game, while Ra1 is quick in the game
Nb8 does nothing either, blacks king is weak...
Now it would be necessary to check several other lines.. and/or search in a database for other gm-( commented ) -games
Very good points as well!
DeleteI did some more reading about this position. At this moment the center is fluid. But after the exchanges, it becomes a pawn center. Where white has a center pawn and black doesn't.
ReplyDeleteThe standard plan for white is then: advance the central pawn to get more space and positional domination. After positional domination, use the advantage in the center to continue the attack there or switch the attack to a flank.
The standard plan for black is: conquer the center pawn. If that doesn't work, blockade it.
At another note, two years after the development of a new method for tactical training, I finally found the time and energy to train myself in accordance to it for 23 days in a row and still going strong. I still have the impression that it might work.
ReplyDeleteA lot of old patterns that were forgotten are dusted off.
Still struggling with this (type of) position. Where to start? I looked at the Stockfish evaluation guide (hat tip to Robert). But the actual evaluation of a position is rather crude and primitive.
ReplyDeleteI'm reading "Game changer" about AlphaZero. That gives away some clues. But I'm afraid I will have to think for myself. Again.
The decision to play e4 was made moves before. Now its just the question if its the right moment to play it, or is anything else important first.
ReplyDeleteOr: find candidate move and calculate
Find the imbalances and crate a list of goals
List all possible moves
Compare them with the the goals you have
select the top 3? 5?
calculate
One important factor is the relative difference in playing strength of the two players. White was (is?) rated 2570 while Black was (is?) rated 2225. That may be why White was more than willing to take on an isolated center Pawn in conjunction with lots of central piece activity. That's one of many considerations that is completely outside of the scope of computer evaluation.
ReplyDeleteI failed to mention (but didn't miss) the "threat" involved after 11. e4. White threatens to advance the e-Pawn to e5, which would remove the Nf6 as a kingside defender. Again, this is a consequence of Black putting his Bishop on f5.
I've noticed that when one player takes the initiative (making threats), the other player becomes restricted in his range of possible replies. "Forcing" moves are the very basis for the initiative. The only possible response that will work is to seek an opportunity to blunt that initiative as soon as possible. If it is not blunted, eventually the attacking player will gain too much momentum. I think this is what Munich was referring to with regard to the ebb and flow of the "waves" in a game. If the tide rolls in too strongly, it washes away all opposition.
Sind the opening-book moves are not long ago, Smyslow surely knew the move e4 from other games in similar positions.
DeleteAnd the move e4 is tactically. Only if you dont play it, then it is not a tactical position. But e4 starts tatctics.
The touble is not so much finding e4, and not so much to find the main-variation of this tactic, which is:
11. e4 dxe4 12. fxe4 Bxe4 (black has to capture with the bishop, because of the threat Rf1xBf5) 13. Bg5 (threatens Bxf6 with winning Be4 next) 13...Bg6 14.Bxf6 gxf6
So this isnt sooo difficult. The real difficulty is: has white enough compensation for his lost pawn? White inflicted an ugly double pawn to the black kingswing).
It helps tremendously, if you know similar positions. Smyslow knew them, but we dont know as many similar positions.
I give you an example of a good move not so easy to see, if you dont know it:
1.d4 d5 2.c4!
Now: if black tries to win the c4 pawn, it could end badly for him:
2...dxc4 3.e3 b5 4.a4 c6 5.axb5 cxb5 6.Qf3 and white is winning.
And if you know this main-idea, you will see that in slightly different positions you can still see how to punish black for tying to hold on the c4 pawn. White might not as clearly be winning in those position, but the move Qf3 and a2-a4 with a4xb5 next is a motive which you likley know if you are a 1.d4 player, with c2-c4 at some point.
It is so difficult, that sometimes you dont even win back that c4 pawn, but you have a lot of ideas how to get compensation for it - but actually only if you studied your d4 opening for quite a while.
And many variations are at the brink of the question: "does white get enough compensation for his c4 pawn?".
I play this main idea in this variation: 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.e4 b5 4.a4 (I am still in book here) 4...c6 5.axb5 cxb5 6.Nc3 Bd7 7.d3 cxd3 8.Bxd3
But even though this is the main variation, I do get other black moves served. I need then to find how to answer black's weaker moves. Some I know form my opening preparation, but not all of them. But with my home preparations, I do have a lot knowledge of typical tactics here.
And thus, Smyslow surely finds e4 at move No.11. And SF is a calculation monster, so no need to even mention it.
Would Smyslow still find such a move at move No. 20? Well, I guess that is less likely, but then again Smyslow was a strong player. So is Magnus Carlsen. These are not mortal people.
great instructions
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_os__kLMY1w